Declaration when getting passport in Pakistan to separate muslims from Qadiani,Lahori,Ahmedi, Mirzai – all followers of Mirza Qadiani

9/21/2012

Declaration when getting passport in Pakistan to separate muslims from Qadiani,Lahori,Ahmedi, Mirzai – all followers of Mirza Qadiani

A Pakistani Internet Businessman recently posted this online – September 2012:

Declaration when getting passport in Pakistan to separate muslims from Qadiani,Lahori,Ahmedi, Mirzai

“Nauseating moment at passport office when forced to agree with form’s definition of who is Muslim and who is not

In Pakistan, if you want to obtain a passport, and at the same time you declare yourself to be a Muslim, you also have to explicitly declare that you don’t belong to this group called Qadiani, Ahmedi, Mirzai or Lahori. These are all the names given to a particular group of people that claim to be Muslim yet don’t agree to one of the fundamental traditional beliefs of Islam that the Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon Him) is the LAST messenger.

***********Someone responded to this Business Man Mr. Mnois Rmhan as follows************

Mr. Mnois Rmhan’s personal diary after his retirement, (from the future of course!)

Following found dated “18^th September 2012”

I made a controversial post about my visit to the Passport office, I didn’t like the imposed definition of a Muslim, that I HAD to conform to if I wanted the passport…I had to explicitly agree that People who believe MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD QADIANI to be a prophet are not Muslims! I thought:

“Even Saudi Arabia, home of Abdul Wahab, doesn’t require its citizens to sign a declaration of what constitutes to be a Muslim. Who is the competent authority? God.”

“If you don’t agree to sign the declaration, than you have to list yourself as non-Muslim, which I could never do.”

So I felt like posting it all on social network, of course, it would link back to a n****b.com page to have some hits and since, controversy sells, why not have some business benefit out of it as well! Who knows…it might become the trend of the day! Muslims and Pakistanis in particular like to talk a lot! They just can’t escape this kind of discussion!”

When I was done with my posts, I started getting immediate responses…as expected…the moderates and extremists got engaged…and the snowball starts rolling :)! I’ll at least get some good subscriptions on n****b.com today!

I got the reminder for my meeting! And realized I should start moving now to the conference room.

So…I started reviewing the agenda in my mind and entered the conference room…and …then, noticed something different…

If the chairperson of a meeting has not reached yet, you expect people to be waiting and usually find them socializing, some are busy with their cell phones…but HERE, it’s like they had started already without me and ALSO they were all focused in listening to this gentleman…who…I couldn’t recognize…and he had a striking resemblance with none other than yours truly! He could actually fit for my twin brother’s description, or even mine!

Am I in the wrong room? That was the first thought…but I could see all the participants that were supposed to be in the meeting and there was this person that looked exactly like me…even had a suit just like mine!

“Well…hello everyone…I see we have already started, and do I know this gentleman…? who looks…just like me…”

Everyone turned towards me! And then there were heads turning left and right…left and right, like a pendulum! With a confused expression on their faces, they looked at the new guy! And looked back at me…and then back to him.

It took me a few seconds to juggle between the questions and come to a profound leading question that might start others talking to answer…everything happening here.

“So you people have started without me with a gentleman looking…just like me…and would you care to introduce yourself?”, “My clone” would be just like him! So that’s what I thought I should call him.

My clone seemed like he had a question mark on his face too…and he went on with what can be best described as MY VOICE “…and who might you be?”

“Who might I be? I’m the boss around here! Who are you buddy?”

I took offense! I’m not sure why…he spoke in MY TONE! Meaning that he pretended to be in charge! At my company I BUILT THIS PLACE practically from scratch!

And the clone replied, “Well that title, ‘boss’ is long gone mister! I have taken it, since I began this company! so…I’m not sure why you look EXACTLY like me but I would certainly like to have a word with you in a few minutes”…with that he gave a confusing look to my HR Manager, also in the meeting…almost like he wants the HR Manager to explain what’s going on!”

And then the HR Manager asked me, “You sure…you are not related to Mnois?”

“What ? no!”, I said and then laughed! “If this guy says he is related to me, then, I’m sure I’d remember a cloned relative! And I DONT!”… “Guys…is this some kind of practical joke?”, and then I considered that possibility…

“No, I’m asking you if YOU are related to Mr. Mnois…?” The HR Manager responded.

“I AM MNOIS! HELLO! The person who hired YOU! Here” and then it dawns on me! That everyone thinks HE is ME! As frustrating as it was, I had to appreciate his…make up or plastic surgery or whatever…

“I’m disappointed! You people couldn’t tell the difference! Even after he started talking”, I thought someone is fooling them with my appearance and that is understandable! but you can’t completely put on someone’s personality too, and no one…would be able to do that, ALSO why would anybody WANT to do that?

I’ll skip a few details here…My clone started arguing, I started arguing back and the HR Manager first, got confused but then took somewhat control of the situation and requested everyone to excuse us three, Mr Clone, Myself and the HR Manager. I had a realization in a few minutes that with this kind of resemblance…I’ll have to give the HR Manager benefit of the doubt and so decided to calm down and handle the situation more rationally, must have been one of the most difficult things to do in my life! The HR manager kept quite for a while but then quickly came up with a solution!

The HR manager gave both my Clone and I, a paper and a pen and asked to write down answers to a few questions…

“You guys look EXACTLY alike, and you must understand my position, I honestly CANT TELL the difference just by looking at you guys, I’m going to have to ask a few questions that only the REAL MNOIS RMHAN would be able to correctly answer, something…personal, something that he BELIEVES in! So PLEASE write down the answers to these questions and we can get to the bottom of this, ok?”

There was some argumentation again but I realized I can think of situations that my clone won’t know about and that should settle the matter peacefully. So before the HR Manager could ask the question, I proposed to ask a few details I could recall about a few things…that would tell the difference, and the HR Manager nodded! The clone had a plain face and kept staring me!

“Mnois! Relax and you can soon throw this person out!” I said to myself

The HR manager asked about some of the questions one by one, and I quickly wrote the answers on my paper, the clone…was surprisingly leaning back…kept on looking at me and the hr manager, He kept smiling…like he KNOWS something, and didn’t write a word! Of course…How could he!

So I wrote in response to the questions, brief answers that would do the job I could see this guy isn’t writing at all.

Before the HR Manager could ask for the papers and…Start reading…the clone stood up!

“So Mr. Mnois Rmhan! Do you now understand?”

“I understood from the very beginning Mister! And it’s time for YOU to understand the consequences of posing as someone else, IN THEIR SPACE, WITH THEIR PEOPLE! What were you thinking? No one would find out? AND…What did u want? My position? My company? You had to do much better than JUST looking and sounding like me!”

“No Mr. Mnois! do you now understand why Its EXPLICITLY required to express your DETAILED views about MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD QADIANI when you state your ISLAMIC identity for the record ?”, He said in a calm voice!

“What does THAT have to do…with…? How do you EVEN know about that? I just posted it online…HAVE YOU BEEN SPYING ON MY LAPTOP TOO?”, I got REALLY mad now! It was PROVEN who he was…this guy brings up something new to confuse us again…does he think we are THAT stupid!

“Relax, I’m not Mnois, he is, so that should take care of this drama!” He turned to the hr manager and said, then turned towards me,

“Listen to me carefully, If someone POSES as YOU, …HIJACKS your identity, and then may be your ideology, you don’t just sit around saying they have their rights to say anything about themselves and who am I to judge and all that confusing crap! my friend, if you are worried somebody stealing your identity, about taking over your position, and your company because THATS what it’s all about, then can you not understand what MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD was up to? This man attempts to strike at the very root of Islam by expressing attributes about himself that only a true Prophet (Naooz Billah) could have, after this, he simply gets the freedom to include WHATEVER HE wants to in the scope of Islam and change it altogether, Is that SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND? Even after all the nonsense HE wrote about JIHAD when people were resisting the English here in Indo-Pak? Whatever Allah has sent to us in the form of WAHI, is interpreted by MAN and CAN HAVE ERRORS, that’s fine! But if the story ended here, it would leave no difference in Islam and any other man-made ideology! The interpretation is backed by ANOTHER STANDARD my dear friend; it’s called IJMAH that the Prophet SAW gave us as the yardstick. If someone doesn’t interpret anything right, there will never be IJMAH of the Ummah on it, according to sahih hadith and you witness that today, there is no IJMAH on any of the confusing religious ideas owned by the extremes in Muslims, be it an extremist muslim or liberal muslim. Learn about Quran, how its interpreted, Hadith, Ijmah and all other things that are necessary for not making a group of companies, but prepare yourself for the afterlife, its diary will be infinite, and won’t just end one day! So Mr. Mnois Rmhan, with all your achievements in life, you need to ask yourself this, is it so difficult for you to understand NOW, why a detailed identification is necessary at the time of such FITNAH? Shouldn’t you be asking yourself why you couldn’t come up with this YOURSELF and had to experience… what you just did to understand it? It’s not JUST a political issue, it has something to with the entire IDEOLOGY, and will you now…open your eyes?”

He kept repeating these last words, “open your eyes”…

“Open your eyes…” the voice is now changing! “Mnois, open your eyes! Wake up!! Sorry to wake you up like this but you were not answering your phone and everyone is waiting in the conference room, and here you are…taking a nap in your office!” My HR Manager woke me up!

19 responses to “Declaration when getting passport in Pakistan to separate muslims from Qadiani,Lahori,Ahmedi, Mirzai – all followers of Mirza Qadiani”

khokhar976

September 29, 2012 at 7:47 pm

This article presents a flawed argument. You are assuming here that Ahmadis are infact pretending to be Muslims while knowing fully well that their faith is not Islam.

This assumption is totally in line with the assertion by many that Ahmadiyyat is actually a conspiracy to destroy Muslims from within. British, Zionists and other anti-Islam forces fund them and support them. Ahmadis attract adherents by paying them money or promising them other worldly rewards. Hence it is not only plausible, but very much a FACT, that Ahmadis are hijacking the name of Islam and its rituals to confuse other Muslims.

So, the writer has to look through the history of Ahmadiyyat and find the evidence to support this argument. For example, is there a protocol or a secret little book telling Ahmadis on how to hijack Islam and harm it? Is there a list of do’s and don’ts on how best to pretend to be a Muslim? Finally, is there any evidence that such a deliberate lie can be upheld millions, in public and in private under the ever scrutinizing eyes of their enemies. i.e., has there been any Ahmadi renegade spilling the beans on what goes on behind closed doors? Any testimony to prove that Ahmadis do not believe in Allah or any of His Prophets or His Books?

I find it totally bizzare that the author has gone to such lengths to defend a law which negates everything Islam has to offer to the world. Freedom of thought, speech and belief. Every clitizen a country has the right to self-respect and dignity but this one forms takes this right away from ALL Pakistanis. From Ahmadis it usurps the right not to be slandered against and ridiculed. And fron non-Ahmadis it takes away the right of being civilized. So, by upholding this idiotic law, the Government of Pakistan is trampling on the rights of all of us. You and me alike.

Reply
1. kalaamonline
  
  September 30, 2012 at 12:37 pm
  
  What you think is the “flawed argument” is not the argument at all 🙂
  
  There is only one little thing being presented here. i’ll try to summarise it again.
  
  If a group of individuals believing in a set of ideas, Ahmedis / Qadianis give themselves a name: muslim, then, they should either comply with all the mandatory “attributes” of a muslim, including the belief that Hadrat Muhammad SAW is the final “Nabi”, IF they don’t they can take some other name, but not THIS name, and THIS is not the real argument either.
  
  IF, muslims have an identity, and someone else wants the same IDENTITY, then they can’t have their OWN definition while using the same Term, IF this is the case, the above article shows it is absolutely correct to go into the meanings and the details of the term to sort out who is who. The approach stands correct with how one would like to do in their own lives given…a situation where someone makes an attempt to take their identity.
  
  THATS IT!
  
  Now, Is it being used against ahmedis to humiliate them ? I’ve heard stories too, and they might also be true looking at muslims “akhlaq” these days.
  
  So, no ! i don’t think the qadianis today are doing it deliberately, however, looking at the “akhlaq” on both sides, and the level of argumentation in debates, I wouldn’t be surprised if I find out about such a group ACTUALLY doing it. There are groups already promising immigration in Europe and America if you become Qadiani, there are also individuals (don’t know if they have any affiliation with a formal qadiani group) who DO pose as non-Qadianis / muslims and their intentions are to establish relationship with muslims and convert them (they might be thinking in lines of “ends justify the means”).
  
  There is one thing that has become important here, there are muslims that USE anti-qadiani sentiments for worldly benefits and there are Qadianis / or their supporters in the West that also use anti-muslim sentiments in qadianis against muslims, in both the cases, submitting to Allah is NO ONE’s priority …so…muslims who think they have their beliefs intact should Re-consider their position too…not just tell Qadianis to correct their views about khatm-e-nabooat.
  
  “I find it totally bizzare that the author has gone to such lengths to defend a law which negates everything Islam has to offer to the world. Freedom of thought, speech and belief. Freedom of thought, speech and belief.”
  
  What the west calls “Freedom” my friend, has nothing to do with Islam, or most of the religions I know about, you have a SERIOUS misunderstanding there, and you might want to review your position, besides khatm-e-nabooat.
  
  Reply
2. kalaamonline
  
  October 9, 2012 at 8:16 pm
  
  You said the following about “Freedom”
  
  “I find it totally bizzare that the author has gone to such lengths to defend a law which negates everything Islam has to offer to the world. Freedom of thought, speech and belief. Every clitizen a country has the right to self-respect and dignity but this one forms takes this right away from ALL Pakistanis”
  
  Following would be my response:
  
  “Muslims across the world would be accepting “FREEDOM” as a principle and value, something they will seriously regret in the long run,
  
  Islam: ‘Right of Freedom’ OR ‘Obligation to Submit’ ?
  
  Islam and most other religions demand “SUBMISSION” against the will of God / god /gods. Isn’t “submission” the exact opposite of “Freedom”? The reason why many religious bodies fail to clearly and openly acknowledge is their fear of unpopular speech and nothing else! after all, people can openly claim to lie, cheat, steal, indulge in riba but its difficult to publically state that “I Reject Freedom!”
  
  Doesn’t Islam gives “freedom” ?
  
  But didn’t Hazrat Umar (RA) also mentioned “freedom” ? Doesn’t Islam also endorse freedom ? Aren’t WE the ones that gave it to the world in the first place?
  
  A simple answer to this question, No we didn’t! not the way WEST understands “freedom”.
  
  In Islam, freedom is viewed as an “ability”, something to allow people to be able to chose between Islam or any other religion in the world, there is no compulsion in religion and thats the kind of freedom anyone can ever interpret in Islam, BUT is that how the WEST also interprets the idea of “Freedom” In western ideologies of Capitalism, Liberalism and Democracy, Freedom is considered the ultimate PRINCIPLE and the ultimate VALUE! Anything is “good” that tends to increase collective freedom of masses and everything that is “Bad” that tends to decrease collective freedom. Its obviously something very different than the term “freedom” used in Islamic history.
  
  Reality:
  So…does Hijaab actually give the western FREEDOM ?
  
  Are we getting “freedom” when are required to obey our parents even if they are wrong?
  
  Is it the “western freedom” when we are required to do Hajj once in a lifetime?
  
  Is anyone free to pick and choose from the 5 prayers ?
  
  Does Fasting, where even the common daily life “Freedoms” to eat and drink are temporarily taken away, a form of Western freedom or…are these “religious obligations” once a person enters the fold of islam by the “ability” to freely chose it ?
  
  Isn’t there something seriously wrong with how we have confused the idea of western freedom ?
  
  A Muslim proudly submits!! He hears and obeys and does not choose between what to obey and what not to obey…he must enter the deen completely, and all this is decided by Allah, His Messenger or the Oolul Amr, the designated ones only!”
  
  Reply
Masood Nasir (@MasoodNasir)

September 27, 2012 at 6:10 pm

Wow, really? You are going to give links to anti-Ahmadiyya sources to study Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s character? What is the difference between you and anti-Islam people who give links to anti-Islam websites to study the character of Holy Prophet (saw)? None. See the pattern?

Yes I have studied the character of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, not only from books but from people who saw him personally

http://www.alislam.org/topics/messiah/

And I found him to be a true person. Thank you!

Reply
1. kalaamonline
  
  September 27, 2012 at 7:11 pm
  
  your approach of argumentation assumes no one can reach the truth! really…think about it!
  
  I’d take your argument, IF you had mentioned some other personality than the Prophet Muhammad SAW, you could have responded by taking any mainstream muslim scholar with a significant amount of controversy associated to him, in that case your argument might hold true, NOT in the case of Prophet Muhammad SAW. You actually Insult Him and I warn you to not do that, people have destroyed their life as well as their hereafter by showing disrespect to the Prophet SAW!
  
  Prophet Muhammad SAW’s character is protected by the QURAN, Sunnah and history. None of that applies to Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, there IS no pattern.
  
  In case of Mirza Ghalam Ahmad, its the very clearly established concept of Khatm-e-nabooat that’s being challenged, being done by a person who can’t even justify his character.
  
  Its good that you claim to have studied his character, ever found answer to clear contradictions in his statements ?
  
  Reply
  1. Jalal
    
    September 28, 2012 at 12:32 am
    
    Assalam u Alikum
    Character of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad alihesalam was true mirror of Nabi(SAW). We love and respect Nabi(SAW) from depths of our hearts. You are mistaken or misguided
  2. kalaamonline
    
    September 28, 2012 at 6:51 am
    
    Those who wish to discover evidence about the true character of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad may contact Khatm-e-nabooat and / or look for their website, there is plenty of literature available on that, one of them could be a book called “Radd-e-Qadinaiat kay zareen usool”- Manzoor Ahmad Chinioti.
    
    People who have clearly contradicting statements, even after considering the context of each of them, can’t gain any respect, claiming to be a Prophet! is a direct violation of Quran and the Sunnah of our beloved and respected Nabi (SAW).
    
    Be careful when you call them a MIRROR of Nabi(SAW) with the kind of characters they had!
  3. Jalal ul deen (@jalaluldeen)
    
    September 28, 2012 at 11:36 am
    
    I was a student in TI High school/college rabwah and they used to close the school/college and make students participate in Khatem Nabuwat jaloos several times. I atteneded these jaloos few times and I heard these KN molvis for hours and read of several books of these Aalims. One thing I always noted that they lie frequently. Whenever I was given a reference, mostly the reference was correct. But whenever I read it in context then found out that it was a Big lie. They just used deception or tried to mislead the reader.
    This behaviour is inline with all enemies of prophets.
  4. kalaamonline
    
    September 28, 2012 at 12:44 pm
    
    Those who dislike each other do that often, it takes much more than what is generally believed to maintain a balanced opinion about an opponent based on THE RIGHT REASONS. I have done many comparative studies myself and have found similar behavior in almost all groups and sects. So…in a way you are right! However, about Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani, even if someone DOES lie, it doesn’t wash away the lies found in Mirza’s literature, these molvis dont claim to be Prophets, Mirza ghulam ahmad does! so…indeed, his behavior is in line with that of the false prophets.
Declaration when getting passport in Pakistan – A new Kalma created in Islam | Rationality

September 23, 2012 at 2:01 pm

[…] on the basis of which they made the constitutional amendement, but there are still some ignorant souls who try to justify it even though it is completely against the teachings of Quran and Sunnah. A […]

Reply
Masood Nasir (@MasoodNasir)

September 23, 2012 at 1:59 pm

Holy Prophet (saw) said that 72 will be separate and hell bound and one will be on his path. You may try as much as you want but you can’t reverse that Hadith now. The munir inquiry report of 1953 is enough to show the true face of non-Ahmadi scholars and their definition of Muslim. Come up with one definition for God sake!

And congratulations to Pakistani Muslims on their new Kalma and creating your own new creed! What should we call it now? Pakistani Islam version 1974? Obviously it can’t be called the Islam of Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) after all the changes it has gone through.

And as for the hadith you quoted on agreement, it does not apply since Ahmadis are not part of that decision. Nice try but total failure.

Reply
1. kalaamonline
  
  September 23, 2012 at 2:19 pm
  
  Technically, this article already assumes them to be a non-muslim group and does not cover the debate of how and why they ARE NON Muslims.
  
  If they try a rhetoric approach to actually try to hear the other sides’ story, there is plenty of content out there. Obviously no muslim would like someone hijacking Islamic identity and therefore Qadianis will have to be patient and objective to actually listen to a muslim’s point of view, that is, IF you are a person who actually has the guts to stand up and accept the truth.
  
  A simple approach is to look at Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani’s character. If he IS what he claims to be, then, he must at least possess the character of an average person AT LEAST!, studies show that this is not the case, and you can review the khatm-e-nabooat’s website to find literature particularly on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s character, again, be patient and objective, here is the link:
  
  http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.com
  
  AND
  
  http://www.khatm-e-nubuwwat.com/pumphlets/qadyaniyon_ko_dawat-e-islam.htm
  
  Reply
kalaamonline

September 23, 2012 at 12:50 pm

Your comment should ideally be answered in a different way, but for now, this small version will do.
Are there any hints about uniting like this, all sects combine declaring a jamaat as non muslim?

Absolutely! and here is the hadith!

Imam Hakim (1/116) has related a Sahih Hadith from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) in the following words: “My Ummah shall not agree upon error.”

Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who said: “Verily my Ummah would not agree (or he said the Ummah of Muhammad) would not agree upon error and Allah’s hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell.” (see also Mishkat, 1/173)

So, again, it IS indeed hijacking religion and NOT reviving religion.

Reply
1. Jalal
  
  September 24, 2012 at 11:21 am
  
  What makes these sects still part of Ummah? Their character and obedience to Allah & Nabi(SAW)?
  
  Reply
  1. kalaamonline
    
    September 24, 2012 at 10:37 pm
    
    The scope of discussion here is very specific, its about the “approach of NEED of specifications in order to highlight the exclusion of Qadianis from Islam.”
    
    It does make Qadianis angry, I can understand but if you try to be very very objective, then, the approach does seem necessary.
2. Anwar
  
  September 29, 2012 at 8:12 pm
  
  Indeed they didn’t agree upon Hadhrat Abu Bakr, Hadrat Umar, Hadhrat Usman, Hadhrat Ali. Well. Disagreement started right after demise of Prophet. Have we not read our history well or are we just trying to ignore it.
  
  Reply
  1. kalaamonline
    
    September 30, 2012 at 12:39 pm
    
    first and foremost, trying to UNDERSTAND your statement, can you please…tell us how its relevant to this discussion ?
jalal

September 22, 2012 at 10:35 pm

Hijacking religion or reviving religion? This is interesting that most of the country signed that they don’t believe hadhrat mirza Ghulam Ahmad as prophet. What a union whlch never been seen before. All sects combined and declaring a jammat non Muslim. Is there any hints in hadith about it?

Reply
1. kalaamonline
  
  September 19, 2013 at 11:38 am
  
  Yes there is a hint, “My ummah will never agree upon an error”, Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (4:2167), ibn Majah (2:1303), Abu Dawood, and others…
  
  Reply

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